Exclusive interview given by acting president, Michel Temer, to radio Jovem Pan-Brasilia/DF
Journalist: President Michel Temer, good morning. Thank you very much for talking with us.
President: Thank you and I wish you all a good day.
Journalist: President, has the delay in the completion of the impeachment process prevented your from really diving into what you would like to do for the country or during this time do you think you’ve accomplished important achievements?
President: You know that this trial period ends up creating some problems, some instability. But the fact is that I’ve been acting as if I was the already the effective President and this happens for a reason. As you said, what is at stake is not whether the President is A or B. What is at stake is the country.
So the country cannot stop. You can see that in these few 30 days of our government, we have put some things in motion that were stopped and stalled for a long time and they are finally moving forward first of all, due to an understanding with Brazilian society. But secondly, and especially, due to the very significant support we have had from Congress.
Journalist: President Michel Temer, good morning. This is Marco Antônio Villa, and my question is as follows: I have followed, as all of us have, the Brazilian population as a whole; the entire process of the impeachment struggle, and for the last 13 years and 5 months in Brazil, we know that we have gone through a process of "PT-ization" (an expression that refers to the presence of the Workers Party in government), let’s put it that way, of the state processes and everything else. There are thousands of advisers who were appointed by PT and their allied parties and who have committed terrible crimes that concern the Brazilian population. The Mensalão case (a corruption scheme discovered and that was active between 2005 and 2006), then the Petrolão case (a corruption scheme involving Petrobras) and a number of things that this machine, these party officials have participated in and have resulted in all types of monetary diversions from the public treasury. It is something that has never been seen in the history of mankind on such a large scale. My question is: how is it possible for you to govern Brazil in the situation you are in, still in the position of interim President, with the "PT-ization" of the state structures?
President: You know, Villa, first, and I would like to say this again, that I’m waiting for the beginning of August and waiting, respectfully, for the decision of the Senate. But we’ve taken some steps; let me give you an example: a little while ago, eight, nine days ago, we organized the termination, which is already in progress, of 4,200 office positions, which are political patronage positions, meaning that you can hire whoever you want, even if the person is not in the public sector. Additionally, we have terminated 10,200 positions that are called bonus positions, that is, public officials who could have a salary increase due to this so-called patronage role. This happened for two reasons, first, let us say, to prevent this that you have just mentioned from happening and, second, with a view to attempt to reduce public expenditures as much as possible.
So I agree with you, it’s not an easy time, there’s always instability. Yesterday, Villa, I gave an interview to a newspaper, to the Washington Post, and I saw that in the United States they have great hope and there is already a new confidence in Brazil, they want to invest, but of course the question always arises: But what is going to happen in August? Will this President continue in office? Will there be another President? This causes instability.
But I will say again, it is not impossible to govern. Obviously, come August things will be more defined, and then I can take many other measures beyond those that we have already taken. However, I’d like to say to you and to all, that in fixing an annual cap on public expenditures, we have not only done this not only for the Union, but we have also taken this to the states of the federation. The states, in the meeting that we had, ended up agreeing with this formula that will be introduced in the constitutional amendment.
Journalist: President, this is Denise Campos de Toledo speaking, good morning.
President: Good morning, Denise.
Journalist: You mentioned this proposal that limits the increase of expenditures, but now I want to know about your expectations in relation to the approval of this proposal, in terms of time, even in light of the whole discussion of the process of impeachment and after the social security reform which seems to be another very important point in the administration of the country’s finances, of the new finance management, are you waiting for a definition within the political scenario to introduce this proposal?
President: You know, Denise, today we have a very solid base in the National Congress, a base, let’s face it, that was not seen in a very long time. You see, I’ll give the example of the DRU, which is the Delinking of the Union Revenue, and just for our listeners to understand, this would allow for a more flexible use, shall we say, of a percentage of the budget. And you see, we have managed to approve it after it was in Congress for 11 months without a vote. And in 2 weeks we have had the first round of voting, because it is a proposal for a constitutional amendment, and in the second week we had the second round of voting. And we won by a very significant number. We needed 308 votes and by 3:00 in the morning we had 344 votes. A lot more than we needed. I’m explaining this to show that we have a very solid base.
Well, this solid base, with whom I am in constant contact, is willing to work with us, with the Executive, in an attempt to get the country out of this crisis. And Denise, when we presented this proposal of the fixing of a cap on public expenditures, you know that this will only be year by year, it only takes into account inflation and nothing more than inflation. It was very well received, and I would say that it was even applauded because the leaders gave their opinions and they said that they would work for this there in the National Congress.
And as you mentioned the social security reform, a lot of other complementary measures will be necessary. Regarding social security, and without a doubt, we are studying the issue of social security reform, and obviously we’re conducting this in direct dialogues with the trade union federations. Within the staff of the Presidency there is group working together with trade union federations, to find a middle way, let’s say, to reform social security in the country which, I repeat, is a complement to these measures of fixing a cap for public expenditures.
Journalist: President, just a quick question for you: I was reading the application for the plea bargaining of Mr. Sérgio Machado, and in the introduction, the Attorney General of the Republic, Mr. Rodrigo Janot, says at the end of page 3, top of page 4, I will ask your permission to read five lines. He says the following: “It shows that there is clearly in progress, the plea bargaining of Sérgio Machado that is, it shows clearly, that a plan is in progress, with strategic and tactical aspects, a judicial plan, together with a political movement by the Supreme Court specifically regarding the Lava Jato (Car Wash) operation. And in the Legislature, a plan, to remove from the criminal justice system the instruments that are the basis of the success of the complex investigation". Continues Mr. Janot: “the effects of this ploy are scheduled to be implemented with the assumption of the Presidency of the Republic by Vice-President Michel Temer, and should soon be felt if the Judiciary does not intervene”.
I wanted to know the opinion of the President of the Republic, Michel Temer, about this statement from the Attorney General of the Republic, who says there is a conspiracy and that there could be, according to Mr. Janot, participation by yourself in this conspiracy that seeks in one way or another to shut down the activities of the Car Wash operation.
President: You know, Villa, that in fact the Attorney General Janot makes this reasoning in view of Mr. Machado’s statements and nothing else. It is not his conviction; he is making a legal case this sense. But in view of these five lines you have read, first of all I have repeatedly said that rather than discrediting the Car Wash operation, and here I am on Jovem Pan radio station and all of you who are asking, and listening to us, that once more, perhaps for the umpteenth time, to restate that we are giving our complete support to the Car Wash operation. And why do I say personal? Because I have the conviction of the importance of the role of each branch within the state. So my question is this: could the Executive somehow interfere in the Judiciary? I say, NO chance. For institutional reasons, I repeat, it is impossible to have this interference.
Second, due to our democratic practices and due to the various declarations I have made, I would never permit myself or someone in the government to interfere in such a matter.
My third point is that I don’t think the Legislative branch will interfere, because then it would have to declare a possible provision in the National Congress, and this is not what I have heard. What I have heard is, that of course there are concerns, there is no doubt about it, but I have not heard about this, shall we say, a conspiracy, to reduce the probabilities and the chances of a judicial operation and of the Department of Justice with the aid of the Federal Police that is moving forward with much an assertion.
Journalist: President Temer, good morning, this is Joseval, my regards!
President: Hey, Joseval.
Journalist: The Attorney General has asked for the prison of Sarney, Jucá, and Calheiros. And Teori from the Supreme Court, has denied this request. You’re an eminent constitutionalist, as we know, and the roots are in the law school of São Paulo, so I ask you, who is right here; the Attorney General or the Supreme Court Justice?
President: Look, Joseval, for those of us who have attended that law school, we know it’s very delicate to give any opinion, especially in the face of my previous statement of non-interference in the Powers. But as an opinion, from a personal point of view, I think the Attorney General did his part, I don’t know what the reasons are; of course, he could possibly be motivated by depositions that he has at his disposal, and Justice Teori has also done his part, from where I see it, also properly, he saw that it was not the case at this moment to enact the arrest mandate. I think that from the moment we begin to realize that we should, let’s put it this way, obey and praise the activities of the institutions, we will be improving what I call, Joseval, an attempt to re-constitutionalize the country. Because, over time, the country has lost all respect for its institutions.
So, when you ask me: “Has the Attorney General acted correctly?" He has done his part. He was the one who... played a preliminary, initial, introductory role, and who played the second role, which is decisive in the case? It was played by the Supreme Court Justice, and in my view, it was properly played too.
Journalist: Is it an exaggeration to suggest his impeachment, President? Before moving on to Villa again.
President: I think it is really not worth it and I would like to inform you all that Senate Speaker Renan has already filed five applications for the impeachment of the Attorney General. This, I believe, is the sixth request. I have a feeling that he won’t go ahead with it.
Journalist: President Michel Temer, President Lula and suspended President Dilma Rousseff insist in saying that you will cut social programs. Are you actually terminating social programs?
President: Regarding this issue I not only give my word; I show by my actions. Let me give you an example. Fies, which is funding for university scholarships, fell steeply over the last year, in fact over the past three years. It started falling, falling, falling, disregarding, shall we say, social rights. Because this scholarship is exactly for those are often not able to pay for university tuition at that moment in their lives.
Well, less than a week ago, we publicly announced the opening of more than 75, 000 scholarships for Fies. With programs such as the Bolsa Família, for example, it is clear that as long as there is extreme poverty in the country, we must maintain them, we have no doubt about this. We’re also going to keep the Minha Casa Minha Vida program, which is a successful program, and we’re already providing for its development. In fact, along with Bolsa Família, Villa, we’re – more than a social right, just to show how we are expanding – we are launching what Bruno Araújo, who is the Minister of Cities, who brought me the idea, that is to launch a so-called Renovation Check, which is a check of up to R$5000 reais sponsored by the government for families that are still fairly poor but want to build another room, or want to refurbish their house, or even want to install better sanitation in their homes. We are launching this plan.
So different from what is being said, I very gently say that these are untruths, serious untruths, because they are not based on facts, I’m not going to eliminate social programs. Of course, let me say, that the main problem is the unemployment; we have almost 12 million people unemployed. What are we doing? We’re encouraging investment by the private sector, which, by the way, is provided for in the constitution. Because by encouraging the private sector to invest, you are opening new jobs, and this is the best of social rights. One of the most unpleasant things for a Brazilian citizen is to be unemployed. When they find a job, they grow both psychologically and socially. So there’s no such thing as eliminating social rights. On the contrary, there is a set of measures with a view to supporting human rights, improving them, especially with regard to employment and particularly bring harmony to the country.
Journalist: President Michel Temer exclusively speaking to Jovem Pan. President, a question now from our fellow journalist Fernando Rodrigues, right there in Brasilia. Fernando.
Journalist: President Michel Temer, this is Fernando Rodrigues, good morning.
President: Good morning Fernando, you owe me a good talk and a cup of coffee.
Journalist: It is true. But there will be plenty of opportunities. President, you were talking about economics, and the debt of states has just been renegotiated, a very important decision between the Union and the states. But some states also have debts with the BNDES (National Bank for Economic and Social Development) in the Pró-Arenas program for the World Cup, and the BNDES Estados program, and these are very large values. In the case of those debts with BNDES, why aren’t they being renegotiated and so that the states can also have some relief in this area?
President: Fernando, what is missing are only legal studies. You know that this issue was raised at the meeting that we had with the governors and there were a few legal restrictions. I myself said: look, the law often depends on interpretation. So let’s try to find an interpretation which ensures the integration of this subject together in the renegotiation with the states.
And I must tell you, Fernando, first hand, that these studies are moving forward. I think that very soon I will be able to call the states, especially those where there has been the construction of World Cup stadiums, to eventually renegotiate those debts. But allow me to take this opportunity to say that this federal solution that we found was being worked on for more than five years without solution. Here we are a little over 30 days into government here and we already gave a solution that is extremely useful for states. For this reason, you see, Fernando, is that in authoritarian states, the Union has to be strong; in democratic states, the states being strong, the Union becomes stronger. And we’re on the path to a democratic state. That is why we have made this deal that was gratefully accepted by the Brazilian states.
Journalist: Another question of an institutional character, President Michel Temer: it is no secret that the Chamber of Deputies is going through a delicate period with the appointment of Speaker Waldir Maranhão due to the suspension of the elected Speaker, Eduardo Cunha. It’s very unlikely that Eduardo Cunha is coming back, so we’re not going to speculate about it. Now, regardless of the outcome of this crisis, the PMDB is the largest party in the Chamber of Deputies. If it is necessary to elect a new Speaker, do you think PMDB should look to other parties, to this group called Centrão, to try to find a name that is a consensus, and not necessarily from PMDB, to lead the Lower House?
President: Fernando, you know that even within the proposals that I have launched, I have taken great care to avoid any interference in a solution that is the purview of the Lower House. But I have, to those who ask me, I have asked exactly for what you mentioned, that there perhaps be a single candidate from the base. Because you know that today the government’s parliamentary base has expanded. Recently seven new parties have been added to the previous base.
So what I have said? It’s not worth dividing the base. If you, harmoniously, in dialogues, can have a single candidate, it is good for the Lower House; it will reveal unity, but it is also useful for the government to show that the base is effectively united. We are trying to work, when asked, to that end.
Journalist: President, how do you see the situation in Venezuela?
President: It’s not good. I’m stating the obvious. And it is so bad that recently I even called Minister Serra and we talked about sending medication to the Venezuelan people. There is great concern about the troubles and hardships that people are going through there in Venezuela. We’re providing exactly that. I hope that Venezuela does not refuse, because many, many times it happens that the state or country says, "Oh no, here we don’t need any help". And there, of course, they need assistance, it’s a delicate situation.
Journalist: President, going back to economics, you talked about the need to stimulate investment, fight unemployment. Leaving aside this priority of the fiscal adjustment, I wanted to know with regard to the concessions if a new program will be launched with new rules to streamline the concessions that the government put forward as a project a long time ago, and that can generate important revenue. Also, on the issue of privatization, if it is included in the negotiations or current renegotiations of the debts of the states. And then you also mentioned the incentive for business investments. What would the strategies be in this area?
President: First, Denise, Moreira Franco is taking care of this issue of the concessions; he is already taking all measures possible with the view to expediting the concessions. Of course they have to go through an evaluation process, a lot of legal adjustments, because today you know how many times the Court of Auditors, very rightfully, have opposed certain measures that the Executive has taken in the past. So we’re being very careful with this. But they will be processed as soon as possible first of all.
Secondly, we are checking the issue of privatization and, particularly, not only in the Union, but we also hoping that the states can do this because the states cannot continue in their present situation. We now have, let’s face it, given a kind breathing room to the states, but other measures, perhaps exactly for this reason ... as a result of privatization, sale of assets, for example, will allow the states to recover.
Additionally, Denise, you know that we need to re-establish ourselves, and I think that little by little we’re doing that, because although we have had only 30-something days in government, but we’re trying to, shall we say, restore trust. Because trust raises hope and hope raises performance, implementation. I think this is going to end up happening.
Journalist: The entrepreneur’s confidence has already increased, several indicators point in this direction, but they also want a bit more security particularly in the political field, between this issue of interim presidency and the process of impeachment. This also affects things, doesn’t it?
President: It surely does. You know as I said earlier, even foreign investors, many have come to me and have come to our Ministers, but it always comes back to the question: what will happen in August? I, of course, said that I ignore this fact. I’m acting because what counts is to help the country, to develop the country, to make the country grow. But people are very worried about this. This political aspect is important. See how interesting our conversation is, as the economy is also connected to political peace, to policy interaction. And actually I think that from August if what we imagine happens, I think the economy will make a new leap.
Journalist: President Michel Temer, I am relying on your kindness, I know that you have many appointments. I would like to ask you two quick questions then, President. One is why, up until now, haven’t you gone on national radio or television to tell the country have you found?
President: You know, Villa, I’ve thought about that. But I have, right now, talked a lot, of course. We have been talking during all this time and you have allowed me to talk to the country. So I’ll wait a little bit longer, maybe after the possible result of my nomination, I might do it then, make an announcement describing how we found the country because, let’s face it, it wasn’t easy what we saw, what we found. Suffice to say that the deficit initially mentioned of R$96 billion reais was actually R$170 billion reais. So I want to give a description of the actual situation of the country so later people do not say things... and allow me to parenthesize, a distinguished politician said: “Look, Temer’s government has 14 million unemployed people ". As if I would have been able to do that in 15 days, 14 million people unemployed. So, I want to say how I found the country and what measures we will take to leave the crisis behind us.
Journalist: President, you cannot imagine the delight in having a President who can actually speak Portuguese properly, this is an amazing victory. Because it was very difficult to understand the communications of the last few years since the Presidents were clearly speaking a language that only resembled the Portuguese language we speak.
Now, I wanted to ask you: regarding your daily schedule, I follow the agenda of the mayor of their city and people don’t like it, some don’t like anyway that when it comes to work, I mean, do you have schedule like this? Do you begin working at 9:00 in the morning and finish at 5:00, is that right?
President: I start at 8:00 AM and end at about 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. After this initial period, I hope that I can soon start at 8:00 and end at 8:00 PM tops. I hope so.
Journalist: President, for the activities planned for today it says you will sanction the State-owned Company Responsibility Law? Is it possible not to have politicians running state-owned companies in the country?
President: I want to check if I can sanction this today. This is in fact, a clear example of the cooperation of Congress. You know that this measure that was approved by the Lower House, and quickly reached the Senate last Thursday and yesterday all changes made by the Lower House were examined and approved. And I want to see if I can approve this today to begin appointments to the state-owned companies. And later today, on the issue of the pension funds, too, there is a bill, that also looks promising. I want to wait for the final decision of the Congress, sanction it, and then look at the pension funds. I hope to do it as of today or tomorrow.
Journalist: President, without doubt Brazilian society is scared, we are living through one of the greatest crises in our history. You have the data and only you have all the data. The question is this: what is the hope that the people can have regarding the near future of our country?
President: The hope is, firstly, that Brazilians can find a way to conciliate in their relationships. You know there was a lot of separation, a separation of the Brazilians, relatively, so to speak, a malaise, or should I say almost, I maybe exaggerating a bit, certain hatred among Brazilians. This cannot happen. First, we need to bring peace to the country. This is the hope that I want to give and if possible I will move these ideas forward.
Second, is to establish economic growth in the country again, so that when Brazilians go abroad, they can be greeted as members of a country that is no longer the future but it is already the present. I think that we can expect this. My team and I, at least, and I think the National Congress, are all very united in this goal, And I think we’re going to be successful.
Journalist: Just a question, I’m sorry, I know that you have a very busy agenda, the Eduardo Cunha’s question. How do you – and someone in the line of succession, the Speaker of the Lower House – how do you as the President of the Republic, the President of PMDB [Brazilian Democratic Movement Party], and him being a leader of the PMDB as well, how do you see this issue?
President: Look Villa, this is a matter that the Chamber of Deputies has to deal with very quickly. I think that, just to register a curious fact, that despite the difficulties there in the Lower House, due to Speaker Cunha’s situation, there are other problems there with the House. But not only that, there is the fact is that the leaders of the allied base have worked this way, let’s say, on their own, with our enthusiasm, to vote on proposals that were approved this month. Just check what was approved this month; despite the difficulties, to conclude that in fact the Chamber of Deputies is working efficienty on its own.
Journalist: President, I appreciate your kindness, your attention, and ask for your final thoughts for our interview, and if you wish to talk about the Ministers. You have lost three ministers involved in the Car Wash scandal. Do you think there will be more people involved?
President: I don’t think so, Tiago. And actually I must say that those who fell, they fell because they resigned. But it’s interesting, they had a sense of cooperation, of course I would have made an assessment, so as not to commit an injustice, because recently if someone is accused they are immediately convicted. So I always make an assessment.
But you know in the spirit of cooperation, they came to me right away and it was the next day. The press sometimes says: “It took Temer 12 hours to dismiss the Minister”. In fact, this was an evaluation. In 12 hours the Minister was asked to leave. So I guess we won’t have any more problems. But this cannot interfere in the governance of nor in the belief in the country.
Journalist: This was the first exclusive interview given by Michel Temer interim President of the Republic to a radio station, and it was an honor that Jovem Pan was selected. President, thank you very much, we would like to wish you the best of luck, and much success in this great challenge.
President: Thank you very much. My regards to you all.